Curse

BlueSummers · May 10, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Factions; Assassins and Henchmen.- a letter to developers.

Brief: Discusses saturated classes in Factions such as ritualists and assassins. These classes have difficulty finding groups and rely on henchmen; which are dumb. Consider updating the AI.

Gentlemen,

I would like to point out a major flaw in Guild Wars; henchmen. Currently, henchmen are really the bane of my game play, and it’s rather annoying. Let me first phrase the problem for you; and then suggest a possible solution.

I’ve been playing GW for some time. I liked prophecies, and I just purchased Factions. Now the issue is that while playing the Prophecies campaign, the henchmen were dumb. Not really really dumb, but just kind of not…smart. This was fine, since they could augment a group and pull their weight at about 70% of what a human being could do.

Unfortunately, Factions has brought a new element into the equation. A lot of people, like me, bought Factions hoping to play the new characters; Assassins and Ritualists. Unfortunately, there’s now a huge proportion of the Factions population being these two classes because they’re new and fun to play. This means barely anyone wants to group with these two (especially assassins because people play them badly), so you are forced to group almost exclusively with Henchmen.

This leads to the game being excruciatingly hard. I’m talking like FoW. 24/7. With henchmen- kind of hard. It bothers me because I bought Factions hoping for an enjoyable experience, and it really hasn’t cracked up to be one yet. Yet. Right now I’m beating my head against a wall because I can’t get anything done. The henchmen seem to have gotten stupider since Prophecies;

1. Henchmen follow protocol at the expense of common sense.
a. Example; if most of the party dies, and only the archer and healer are left, the healer will rez the ritualist first. Always. This makes sense because the ritualist can help in healing. The henchmen doesn’t realize that the spiritualist died in a pack of deadly mobs, and will promptly run to her death; ruinning the mission.
2. Henchmen follow a grossly flawed protocol.
a. Example; the henchmen will cluster around me and wait for their health/energy to recharge to full before rezzing dead party members. This can take a while, and just serves to waste time. Anyone who’s played with a pack of henchies can attest to this kind of dumb behavior. If anyone should be rezzed immediately, it’s the critical thinking human.
3. Henchmen are uncontrollable.
a. Henchmen follow you until you don’t want to be followed. If I’m going to charge through a pack of mobs, I want the henchies to stick close, and don’t get locked up into battle. But they almost invariably do, and get themselves killed and rack up DP. However, if I want them to take the point and get agro, they faithfully stay by my side. Great. =\

This game issue is really ruining it in the short run for me, and I’d presume many other players that are being assassins right now. I therefore humbly suggest that Henchmen be made smarter to counter this problem. Consider if there was some way of entering at least 3 basic commands to somehow control henchmen;

Follow Me
This command could override henchmen protocol and they will follow me or the team. No attacking other targets. No stupid running around. They stick to you like glue and don’t pull extra agro or otherwise cause catastrophe.

Stand Ground
A simple command that will have henchmen assume a defensive or offensive posture, but stand their ground. They don’t go anywhere, regardless of where I go or what I do. This would be wonderful in situations where rangers can pull agro and drag monsters back into henchmen. Or, in the case where someone needs to be protected, one could station henchmen in one spot to prevent them from blindly following command #1 or their built-in protocol.

Attack My Target
Finally, it would be nice to actually direct concerted attacks. While henchmen already do “attack my target” they only attack what I’m currently attacking. It would be nice to assign them attacking one target, while I go for another. With this, they wail on one target until it dies or they do. It would certainly help some situations where the henchies occupy one group, while the human goes for the healer/hero or something.

Now I don’t know how to implement these ideas; that’s for game designers. These are just suggestions that would make dealing with henchmen a lot easier. I believe some change is deeply needed, because right now the game isn’t fun for people playing saturated classes that can’t find groups. Please consider these fixes, or at least think of some new ones that will alleviate this unique situation.

Truly yours,
--BlueSummers

Lepton CFd · May 10, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

/signed

Exactly how I feel.

mqstout · May 10, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Merge this with the 1001 other threads of the same topic. It's sorely needed. Look at what FPS games have for AI companions -- basic shouts from UT or as old as Mechwarrior for formation/objectives are enough to draw from as examples.

Dark Psychotik · May 10, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

This one seems well though out, I like the basic commands you outlined the most, cause those cover MY problems with the henchmen.

/signed.

Daithi the wolf · May 10, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

/signed

Henchmen are really annoying me in this game.

Sankon · May 10, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Totally!

/signed

nyxnemesis · May 10, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

/signed

It's almost comical how bad the henchmen are and how hard Factions is too play with them. An example of how the two don't go together are the Am Fah assassins that drop from the sky. For some reason, your henchies don't run as fast as you (even with no running skills). So, you're running happily along, and all of a sudden your henchies are surrounded by assasins that you now have to fight, which you could have outrun with real people. Other examples have been mentioned before, but I do have my personal favorite: all the enemies are dead and so are you (because you take all the damage) and the monks won't rez you for 10 minutes. You're just laying there with your dead body, while they stand over you in a group plucking their nosehairs and wondering why you haven't gotten up yet--"Duh, oh. Is she sleeping? I don't get it!?"

I know that making the henchies stupid kind of forces people to join up and work together--kind of like the first day of school when your teacher plays "get to know you" games. But I really hated the first day. And if you are an assassin, especially, you're going to have a heck of a time getting a group to finish the game and makes you--"Assasin and the Seven Morons".

The system you mentioned that commands your henchies is one that has been used for years. I mean, conquering/building games like Ceasar and Age of Empires allow you to make your armies aggressive, stand their ground, or defend, etc. A game that's supposed to be as innovative and fancy as GW should be able to pull something like that off.

pyrosamurai · May 11, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

There was a point during my current factions experience where I would hands down agree with you 100%. The AI could be better. For example when I was doing the Zen Daijun mission. I had went with henchies and had died in the middle of the miasma degen crap. Well the henchmen ended up defeating the enemies and stood there healing themselves. In the middle of the fricken miasma!!! Since the henchmen do not res when trying to heal themselves they inevitably die when 6 of them standing there trying to stay alive while taya (healer) kept orisoning them all. It doesn't work. Mission was failed. But alas I have pulled off some pretty neat tricks with working with henchmen. So here is why I don't comletely agree with you. As an assassin I just don't even try to get a party, pretty much anything I do is with either henchies or the occasional guild teamwork. Anywho I just got done with the Nahpui Quarter mission and the vital role of choosing which henchmen to take really plays a key role. About my 3rd attempt at the mission I decided to try a first and take the well/corpse explosion henchmen (Su) and all of the elementalists. This completely ended the annoying warrior from rushing in and pulling every single essense/star/and that fat dragon. As for targeting all you need to do is Ctrl+Shift then double click an enemy. This made it possible for me to just stand while the henchmen nuked/pulled the enemies on the edge. So targeting is there, its the other commands I would enjoy aswell. As for running through an area without trying to fight anyone, I do the exact same, target..let the monsters lock on to whatever henchy went in first and then I shadow/run whatever through. It works. Another thing I have realized aside from discussing henchies is the fact that I have effectively made my assassin to stay alive. Teleportation/healing/defenses all take part in a good assassin. I can tell a lot of 10 year old kids liked the assassin and tried to use it, and ended up failing. Believe me the assassin is hard. Its extreme offense cuts back on its defence greatly, so half your skills must be either defenseive or effective to maneuver your assassin. Assassin is a lot harder to work with aswell before you reach lvl 20 and before you buy kaineng armor (the max). About yesterday I've been able to achieve level 20 on my assassin and get him max armor. This greatly helped and am now able to keep him alive a long time. One final factor in using assassins is health. AI enemies go after either the healer or the person with the lowest health. Bogging your assassin down with runes will only kill you. Remember the assassin already dishes out tons of damage, don't sacrifice more defense for power. You'll just die first and be useless.

Bowman Artemis · May 11, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

This is a great letter. It's reasonably thought out and isn't senseless bashing of the company and game devs.

/signed.

mega_jamie · May 11, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

/SIGNED

another problem that severly needs fixing is that once you die they totally stop follwing calls altogether, which inevitably leads to their death.

Alya · May 12, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

/signed

Any kind of "Attack My Target" command is absolutely vital for an assassin player with henchies. Often it is necessary that my warrior henchies were tanking the enemy warriors in the mob while I (as an assasin) sneak hit their casters. Currently, when I call a target, henchies start attacking it, and this is fine, but as soon as I switch to another enemy, they drop the first target and switch their attention to the one I am currently attacking, no matter what. This must be addressed.

Verlas Ho'Esta · May 12, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Two small additions, please? Maybe a condition-sensing protocol in the AI, so they avoid the hazardous areas like poison water. If we're island-hopping through the kryta swamps, and I'm staying on dry ground, casting heal area, they REALLY shouldn't randomly run out of my heal range, into the fetid water, and stand there for five seconds.

Maybe make it like the generic party stance/control from Vampire: The Masquerade: Redemption. Three options, aggressive offense, stand your ground, run away/regroup. Party leader simply sets the bots stance and then ignores them unless change is required.

The other addition is a shift in the targetting priority of the bots. Enemy mobs are smart enough to target the critical thinker (humans) and support (monks/ritualists), focusing fire on them then moving on. Why do bots ignore the monk I'm targetting and focus on low-priority mesmers and necros, splitting their fire in the process? The warriors/HtH bots target properly, but rangers/eles/mesmers/necros/all-bots-after-player-death choose their targets poorly.

Other than that, I'm all for it.
/sign.

BigTru · May 12, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Unsuspecting Strike, Jungle Strike, and a rare, RARE occasion, Death Blossom. Those are the only skills I've seen Nika use thus far. The simple fact that she uses Jungle Strike with no cripplying skills is enough to warrant a look at other currect henchman builds.

Henchman in factions, from my observations,onlyis ressurection sigs ONLY if there are 1-2 henchman left. WHY!?